Ron | September 2, 2005 12:14 AM

I actually saw that Michael Brown interview live on CNN, and if there's going to be ANY scapegoat for the complete failure of this administration to handle this crisis adequately, he clinched the nomination right there.

stone princess | September 2, 2005 02:09 AM

Thanks for posting that. I'll repeat here what I said in my own commentary on Cherie Priest's beautiful statement:

I think it is also easier for us outside observers to think everyone was being obstinate and not leaving, rather than imagining that we live in a society that made no provisions for the sick, elderly and poor to evacuate. The more I see pictures of those left behind, the more I feel like this is stunning example of how we like ignore everything outside the middle and upper classes unless it's forced in our faces.




Also, FEMA clearly seems to have forgotten what the "M" stands for, as all I can can glean from photos and blogs is chaos in NOLA, no management at all. The only other memorable case of looting like this after a natural disater was in St. Croix where they faced a similar breakdown of support services and couldn't get supplies in.

Arg, I'm starting to rant again...

Doug Hoffman | September 2, 2005 02:30 AM

The regional, state, and federal governments knew days in advance this would happen. They must have realized the poor of New Orleans would end up in this situation. I wouldn't be surprised if someone high up -- e.g. in FEMA -- did a cost-benefit analysis and figured it would be cheaper this way.

In any case, it's damned hard not to come to the conclusion that the government does not care whether the poor live or die.

Bonnie | September 2, 2005 07:27 AM

My son was trapped in Florida last year when Hurricane Jeanne came through. He was a teenage boy visiting relatives. By the time my family was told that an evacuation order had been put out it was too late for them to leave the city they were in. There are only a limited amount of roads to leave these areas from. You sit in your car for hours. Gas runs out. The storm comes in and it becomes safer to stay in the home instead of the car. There was no way in the world I wanted my son to be trapped during the storm, but you just can't go to the local military base and ask for transportation out of the city. STOP BLAMING these victims FEMA. The blame is on your shoulders fully.

alkali | September 2, 2005 07:34 AM

You people sound so high and mighty, but I would point out that the director of FEMA is a former estate planning attorney from Colorado who was legal counsel for the International Arabian Horse Association. Those are disaster management credentials you just can't argue with. Let's leave this one to the professionals, 'kay?

Kevin Q | September 2, 2005 08:15 AM

I've often been one who, after a major disaster, sat around and wondered "why the hell didn't they just leave." This attitute is often helped by the news reporters, who just love those "Well, this is my city, and I'm just going to stick it out," type quotes.

However, when the evacuation rate is 80%, everybody who could leave, did. Especially when the poverty rate in that area of the city is better than 30%. "Mandatory Evacuation" is no use to people without transportation.

New Orleans is a dirt-poor city - one of the reasons why I had to move away. And this disaster has been a long time coming. Every hurricane season, the news always re-reported that I-10 West, one of the two major evacuation routes, is at one point 10 feet below sea level, and floods every hurricane. There was a pumping station there, but it just couldn't keep up. It would have taken six years to fix, because they would have to raised the road over another bridge, but did they even get it started? No. "Yes, it's a shame, but the city just doesn't have the money." Saving New Orleans was just not a "priority" for the state or federal governments. Dammit.

K

Celeste | September 2, 2005 08:18 AM

Well said. The more I see, read, or hear the angrier I get. Why could they have not gotten something started? They knew for days that Katrina was going to hit. Why is it they can mobile and go to war in 24 hours but cannot find time to secure 1 drop of water when disaster is going to strick our shores? Our government leaves a lot to be desired!

Don Demsak | September 2, 2005 08:36 AM

John, I figured with you being a good student of Heinlein, you would have a more Libertarian viewpoint. What would have Heinlein have said? Probably a lot worse then what Michael Brown said. The Libertarian point of view would be something like “Mandatory evacuation. You have the freewill to stay, but in doing so you void our responsibility to save you afterwards”. That is of course you do provide them with the ability to leave before hand, or at least bring them to one of the shelters. Seems as though I do remember video of people turning down rides to the shelters, and opt instead to wait it out in their homes.

Emily | September 2, 2005 09:30 AM

I agree with what you've said, John. Those with money can't understand that $300 might as well be a million if you don't have it.

This is probably a stupid question, but I've seen it brough up in other forums -- what about walking? I know it's not entirely reasonable, but I am curious as to what walking out of the city could've done for those who didn't have the means to drive.

And apparently now someone is suggesting that martial law be declared so that American troops can occupy their own cities to try and keep the peace during a mess of our government's own making.

Way to be proactive, guys.

Adolph | September 2, 2005 09:51 AM

Walking? Are you serious? Have you ever been to New Orleans in August? Walking is a much greater certainty of death then a blustery wind. Heat Stroke would have taken nearly 1/4 of everyone that tried to walk away...you can't carry enough fresh water to make the trek to the nearest safe town.

At any rate, those unable to depart where naught but dependent rubish, they would have died once the system they were milking for support failed. Like parasites without a host, those who are unable or unwilling to be responsible for themselves simply cannot exist without that supple nipple of social services firmly planted between their pot-stained lips. I say good riddance to the lot of them. The storm saved that bloated baby a future of system dependency...that's mercy not tragedy.

fidelio | September 2, 2005 09:58 AM

Last night I spoke to my mother, who had finally heard from some of our cousins down there. One set was a mother and daughter--both over 60, with the daughter in poor health. They had decided to stay in Biloxi because traffic out was so bad, and it was only possible to travel east, not north. They made it through the storm, and were able to get out afterwards. The story for the New Orleans relatives was similar--a married couple, both over 70, who managed to drive out before the flooding prevented this, but who elected to stay through the hurricane, because driving out between the traffic and everything else was so difficult.

In neither case was money an issue--but age and health were factors. Driving in those conditions is well past the worst rush-hour traffic you can think of, and into the "this should be one of the torments of hell" level. I don't think it was wise for them to have stayed--but I can see why they did, and in their shoes I might have been just as unwise.

Here's another factor--how many of us have been in the spot where, the weekend before payday, our budgets were pretty tight? We weren't suffering--there was food in the house, enough gas in the car to get to work and back, and the bills were paid, but if we had need a chunk of cash in hand, we'd have been out of luck?

And another point--this was a weekend. How many banks were open? How long did the cash supply in the ATMs hold out? How many businesses were willing to cash people's checks? If you can't get your hands on it, money in the bank isn't the same as money in your hand.

Finally, for those who've never been in New Orleans, or only travelled there by plane or trains, getting in and out is not easy. Look at this map, and consider the challenges.

mythago | September 2, 2005 10:58 AM

Walking (to where?) would not have gotten them very far out of the hurricane.

And given that people with resources had trouble getting out, I think perhaps the director of FEMA ought to shut his yap about people who didn't have money and cars and the ability to drop everything and go stay somewhere else free.

Dean | September 2, 2005 11:00 AM

I've heard those comments, and others like 'Why did those people live in a city that was below sea level'?

I'm getting heartily sick of the Randian/Libertarian viewpoint, that of 'I've got mine, so fuck all of you.' That viewpoint has seeped into damn near everything, prompting a certain class of people to ask why they should pay school taxes when they're childless, why they should be responsible for policing costs when their neighborhoods are relatively peaceful, and why they should pay for FEMA when people choose to live in hurricane country.

Could somebody ask Mr. Brown how all those elderly people (mostly black and poor beyond what most of us have experienced) were supposed to do anything about their own situation? What responsibility should they bear, Mr. Brown?

John Scalzi | September 2, 2005 11:02 AM

Don Demask said:

"Seems as though I do remember video of people turning down rides to the shelters, and opt instead to wait it out in their homes."

I'm sure there were some people who could have left but didn't. I don't expect it was a very large percentage overall.

I feel actually very libertarian about people who actually and affirmatively choose to ride out something like a hurricane. If you can get out but you don't, you cease being someone else's problem. But I don't suspect this was the case with the majority of the people here.

mythago | September 2, 2005 11:23 AM

Why, Dean, being poor and elderly (without rich, devoted relatives) is clearly a sign that one was not sufficiently competent and morally worthy to be among the Elect. Er, I mean, to improve one's station in life and.

Shelly | September 2, 2005 11:56 AM

Not to mention the disabled, the people physically unable to travel, the fact that (as I read) there aren't too many ways out of that city...

And some people simply don't think things will be as bad as the warnings say. I remember a hurricane up here on Long Island in an almost coastal town in the '70s when we were told to evacuate to a town north of us which was higher ground because they feared a tidal wave. We opted to stick it out, hopeful our house would be fine. The tidal wave never materialized and we got just a lot of rain. We lost electricity, but were otherwise fine. Sometimes, the warnings just sound like someone crying wolf.

Trent Goulding | September 2, 2005 01:04 PM

I'm sorry, but it's the quotes and pictures of the babies that are slaying me whenever I see them. Maybe it's overly sentimental, but I have a three and a half month old daughter right now, so those go right to the heart.

John Scalzi | September 2, 2005 01:10 PM

Yup.

Don Demsak | September 2, 2005 04:02 PM

Personally, I think that the percentage of folks that stuck it out because they didn't have any other option (money or health) is a lot lower than we tend to want to believe. I mean Fats Domino had to stick it out. He had opportunity, but chose not to use it. And at the cost of risking other people's lives to save him after the fact (not to mention wasting resources that should be going to save the city and the folks that didn't have the opportunity to leave). There needs to be some sort of retribuation paid by all the folks that decided to stick it out and given to all the folks that wanted to leave and couldn't.

Michael Rawdon | September 2, 2005 06:19 PM

I went to college in New Orleans. I've never been poor myself, living in New Orleans provided some perspective.

Growing up in Boston, I knew that us white suburban kids just shouldn't take the Orange Line to some parts of town at night. In New Orleans, there were large swaths of the city where you didn't want to go even during the day. Okay, it was safe (I think) to ride a bus through those parts of town, but that was about it.

A fellow I worked with in college was shot dead in an attempted robbery outside a bar one night before my senior year. I had other friends who knew people who had been killed - sometimes in broad daylight, not far from the university - as well.

When I lived there, there was one - count 'em, one - street I ever saw which looked like it had been paved in recent memory (it was the street outside a hospital, which reportedly paid for the pavement itself). On the other hand, I saw plenty of streets with potholes as big as my car. The city is built on a swamp, but it had effectively no money for basic infrastructure like maintaining the roads. (Biking around town was a lot of fun, let me tell you. Especially the rampant broken glass.)

I would wager that anyone who has never been to New Orleans - especially outside of Mardi Gras season - just doesn't understand what a different city it is (was?) from others in the country. I've always referred to it as a "dying city", because, really, it was dying a slow death. It's not Boston, or Memphis, or Chicago, or Madison, or Minneapolis, or San Francisco, or San Jose, or Portland OR (to name cities I've spent at least a little time in). It's a profoundly strange place.

People have piled on a few politicians for wondering whether it should be rebuilt. I question whether it can be rebuilt. It probably can, but I don't think it's a gimme.

Scott Westerfeld | September 2, 2005 06:51 PM

Personally, I think that the percentage of folks that stuck it out because they didn't have any other option (money or health) is a lot lower than we tend to want to believe. I mean Fats Domino had to stick it out.

I've heard statisticians lament that opinions based on small sample sizes are the root of all stupidity, and this astonishing comment makes me see exactly what they mean. The city was 80% evacuated, and 30% of the population lives at or below the poverty line. That's what I'm basing my thinking on, not what I "want to believe."

And your opinion is based on . . . Fats Domino? Whatever keeps you comfortable.

Kevin Q | September 2, 2005 07:08 PM

Michael Rawdon,
I've been fighting against using the past tense for New Orleans all week. Sure, it's been dying a slow death, but it's been dying a slow death for 300 years. Things are bad, but it'll take more than a wall of water to wipe it off the map.

Nagin needs to strike while the iron is hot here, and get billions of dollars from the federal government dedicated for infrastructure reconstruction. Get I-10 and the main roads rebuilt, this time with planning, instead of the haphazard way they were built in the past. Get modern streetcars and busses. Get updated sewage and water lines, fix the levees all around the city, and put pumping stations where they're needed. And then focus on getting industry and business to the city, so that it can flourish, instead of having to sustain itself on tourism and the (admittedly important) port.

Nagin needs to take the opportunity to make the city worth living in again.

K

Emily | September 3, 2005 12:06 AM

The heat comment was something I hadn't thought of. You're right that it would be pretty ridiculous to attempt, even for a family that was healthy.

My mother made the comment this evening when we were talking that Michael Brown is probably running on very little sleep and is probably a little in shock. My answer was that if this is true, he shouldn't be giving statements to the press unless he can form coherent sentences.

Anonymous | September 3, 2005 12:18 AM

There needs to be some sort of retribuation paid by all the folks that decided to stick it out and given to all the folks that wanted to leave and couldn't.

You don't "pay" retribution. I think you meant to say restitution, and in any case, it's a risible idea. What are you going to do--brain-scan to detect the virtuous who couldn't leave from the dastardly who could? (Apparently this latter group consists of masochists who love the thrill of being in the path of a hurricane and having everything they own destroyed.)

Disasters are so like kicking over a rock. All the ugly, crawly things you normally wouldn't see come sliming out.

sara | September 3, 2005 10:18 PM

I know I'm late to the party, but I had to chip in this link:

http://www.cityofno.com/SystemModules/PrintPage.aspx?portal=46&tabid=4

It is a lovely document entitled:
City Of New Orleans Emergency Preparedness : Emergency Guide for Citizens with Disabilities

I found it while searching for information on what preparations might have been made to evacuate those who could not evacuate themselves.

If you need to evacuate, you should first contact your support system and seek shelter with relatives, friends, community organizations or in hotels/motels.

Yep. The main plan for evacuating people with disabilities was "call a friend and ask them to take you."

There is mention of the ability to apply for an Emergency Evacuation Assistance Program, but no mention of what it entails - it seems to indicate that you might be able to apply to be put on a list to get a ride to a shelter. The shelters, by the way, are clearly stated as providing no medical care or personal care assistance. Which is code for "you'll get to sit in your own filth and be responsible for fighting other evacuees for what little food and water is available."

mariah | September 4, 2005 02:29 AM

man, you fuckin' said it all!! that was great... im loving your site.

Dane | September 4, 2005 11:46 AM

"Adolph": Are you trying to be ironic or just an ass? I believe you have accomplished both simultaneously. congratulations

Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little | September 4, 2005 06:47 PM

My father, who works--maybe that should be past tense--as a pediatrician at the various New Orleans hospitals and out of his family practice office on Robert E. Lee, brought up another point:

Not only does the national media love the "hell if *I'm* gonna leave" soundbites, but also they probably heard more of it than was accurate. If you're too poor or too frail to leave, you feel pretty fricken' helpless. You might be tempted to give a speech overflowing with bravado about how you'd rather die than leave simply because you'd rather sound stubborn than helpless.

Another reason: If you have the means to leave, but you're just that poor, it may in fact seem a fate worse than death to leave. The hurricane may take away what little you did have; what the hurricane misses, your equally desperate neighbors may take. Better stick around and protect your few possessions than lose everything.

I bring up my Dad's work because he works with the poor of New Orleans on a regular basis. He's probably heard some of these mindsets first hand.

Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little | September 4, 2005 06:49 PM

My father, who works--maybe that should be past tense--as a pediatrician at the various New Orleans hospitals and out of his family practice office on Robert E. Lee, brought up another point:

Not only does the national media love the "hell if *I'm* gonna leave" soundbites, but also they probably heard more of it than was accurate. If you're too poor or too frail to leave, you feel pretty fricken' helpless. You might be tempted to give a speech overflowing with bravado about how you'd rather die than leave simply because you'd rather sound stubborn than helpless.

Another reason: If you have the means to leave, but you're just that poor, it may in fact seem a fate worse than death to leave. The hurricane may take away what little you did have; what the hurricane misses, your equally desperate neighbors may take. Better stick around and protect your few possessions than lose everything.

I bring up my Dad's work because he works with the poor of New Orleans on a regular basis. He's probably heard some of these mindsets first hand.

Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little | September 4, 2005 06:51 PM

(Sorry for the double post. The first one didn't show up after a refresh. Thought maybe the mailinator email address I used had been blacklisted or something.)

kathie | September 4, 2005 09:22 PM

Thanks for the great post...what's really disheartening now is what I read in the paper this morning--that 46 percent of people polled (can't remember the poll) felt the government was doing a fine job of handling the aftermath...WHAT??? This Brown has blood on his horse czar hands...where is the humanity...his heart? I am so glad I am not cut from his cloth.

MFEM | September 6, 2005 09:33 PM

You know, there were people that actually stayed in New Orleans for the sole purpose of looting after the hurricane passed. Though I don't really see the point in that, are they planning to sell the stuff? Keep it? If they were taking food, clothing, drugs, things like that I could understand it, but at this point the city is not going to have power for weeks, what are they planning to do with a TV, DVD player, XBox?

You also have to take into account people at hospitals, patients and doctors, the police department, officers weren't supposed to leave if they could help it.

Personally, I think that the world in general is doing a better job of responding to this tragedy than the US itself is doing. Even Sri Lanka, which is still recovering from the tsunami, has offered to send aid. Charities all over the globe are sending people, money and supplies to the Gulf Coast. Maybe Katrina isn't exactly bringing out the best in the US, but it's interesting to see what other countries care enough about innocent people to send aid.

Next Disaster | September 8, 2005 06:49 PM

So when the next Tornado is coming near a city in Kansas, the president who has other things to do and 49 other states to worry about, should stop everything and send troops in to evacuate all the poor people that have no friends or family anywhere to give them a ride.The people should not have any plan of thier own, just sit around and depend on the goverment, just like they had been before the disaster. Man personal responsibility means nothing anymore, all you hear is,I deservre help because I choose not to better myself with school or churchs that can help me to be independant of goverment. Nope can't have that.

Whatever

John Scalzi | September 8, 2005 08:07 PM

Leaving aside the fact that a tornado is probably one millionth the size and power of a category four hurricane, and that hurricanes, unlike tornados, can be tracked and predicted over a series of days, thereby exposing your example to be impossibly stupid and you as something of an ignorant ass -- yes, in the absence of local or state governments performing the task, I would be quite happy to have the federal government step in and help evacuate tens of thousands of people who might not otherwise be able to escape the path of a hurricane, thereby avoiding, say, the possibility of 10,000+ fatalities later on. Seems like if a government is going to be good for something, it should be helping keep its citizens alive. Even the poor ones.

But clearly you would prefer they all just die. How nice for you. These days, that makes you a marvelous candidate to head FEMA.

Rob | September 9, 2005 11:06 AM

There are bound to be failures in cultures('poor' South)that do little to take reasonable care of themselves. The 'po folks' I see on TV are multigenerational loosers whose life plan is to whine and beg from strangers. No clue about self responsibility. Who cares why, either you take care of yourself or you don't.

John Scalzi | September 9, 2005 11:28 AM

Golly, Rob. It's amazing how much you can tell about someone and their entire life story from seeing their picture for two seconds on the television. That's just a totally awesome psychic power! I wish I had it.

My psychic power is being able to tell what someone is like just by reading the messages they leave about others on someone else's blog.

Whatever | September 9, 2005 06:21 PM

[Deleted due to appalling stupidity]

Anonymous | September 16, 2005 11:33 AM

I CRIED WHILE READING BEING POOR IN THE SUNDAY PAPER.IT BROUGHT BACK SO MANY MEMORIES OF MY STRUGGLE GROWING UP AFTER MY FATHER DIED AND LEFT MY MOTHER AT AGE 38 A WIDOW.I WAS FIVE YEARS OLD.THERE ARE FOUR OF US GIRLS AND MY MOTHER RECENTLY PASSED AWAY AT AGE 100! SHE OFTEN SAID I AM LIVING PROOF--HARD WORK NEVER HURT ANYONE. I CAN REMEMBER HER WORKING IN THE FIELDS DURING DAY AND SEWING AT NIGHT --OUR CLOTHES.CANNING EVERYTHING SHE COULD GET HER HANDS ON FOR HER CHILDREN.MAYBE WE WERE POOR COMPARED TO SOME BUT WE WERE SO RICH IN OUR MOTHERS LOVE. HOW I LOVE HER AND MISS HER. WE WERE POOR IN MATERIAL THINGS PERHAPS BUT RICH IN LOVE. THAT IS WHAT MATTERS--MEMEORIES OF HER LOVE FOR HER CHILDREN.