Whatever

You mean there was a Rush Hour 2?

La Gringa:

Regrettably, yes.

And if by some miracle you're sitting on the fence with regard to Stardust, the director explicitly compares it to a mashup of Princess Bride and Midnight Run. And what could be better than that?

Besides a mashup of Princess Bride and CANNONBALL Run, of course.

There aren't many reviews up at RottenTomatoes yet, but the numbers so far are about what you'd expect:

FRESH: 78% Stardust
ROTTEN:22% Rush Hour 3

I was lucky enough to see Stardust last week at a screening, and I'm happy to say it was pretty darn good. (The audience of jaded industry-types seemed to be digging it, too.) It's much better and much funnier than the terrible marketing would indicate.

As an aside, why do ALL modern movie posters stink on ice? I can't remember the last time I saw a movie poster that didn't make my inner graphic designer (he wears a tiny beret) shit his pants in despair.

Johne:

Rush Hour 3 is pretty critic-proof, I'd say.

Lotta generalization there, especially in regards to women. Counter to your assumptions, the Rush Hour movies do quite well with women as far as I can tell. All the ladies I know like them a lot, including both my mother and my wife. Most of them are 30 and over. My wife and I are going to go see both, probably Rush Hour 3 first, and she's a huge Stardust fan. (She doesn't trust the movie to do justice to the book so she's a little more patient.) Oh, and most of the people I know are very into sci-fi and fantasy.

The Rush Hour movies are such that my whole family can watch and enjoy. Will Stardust appeal to a mass audience? Hard to say.

I agree with you in principle, though. Stardust will provide a nice alternative for those unfortunates who don't find Chris Tucker amusing.

David Chunn:

"Lotta generalization there, especially in regards to women."

Well, David, inasmuch as I've been following the movie business professionally for a decade and a half, I think I've allowed to make generalizations from time to time, based on my own knowledge of the field.

To your point, there are no doubt women who enjoy the Rush Hour films; the primary market for the film is young males, with other demographics (women, families, older viewers) secondary to them.

I'd like the Rush Hour movies a lot more if Chris Tucker wasn't in them.

As it is, I think I'll go see Stardust and maybe watch one of Jackie's older films on DVD. (Or Shanghai Noon, even. At least Owen Wilson is funny.)

The one thing that scares me the most about the Rush Hour 3 movie is that perhaps it will be successful enough to warrant making another in the Shanghai Noon, Shanghai Knights series.
I shudder at the thought.

I really liked the Rush hour movies, especially Rush Hour 2. I'm an easy date as far these go, I have to say. If I go expecting to be entertained, I usually will be. My critical nature pretty much shuts down, unless the movie is really, really bad, and i can usually spot those from the marketing strategy ('I Know Who Killed Me' comes to mind). That being said, I have a 47" HDTV, so these days I am only willing to go out to see movie if it something that has to be seen on the big screen to fully appreciate. Rush Hour 3 probably isn't one of them, Stardust probably is (Old Man's War would definitely be). Plus, I'm sure that Stardust will offer more things to talk about. I have not read the book, yet, so the movie will stand or fall on its own merits in my eyes (which could could be a good thing or a bad thing).

I don't know if the trailers for these sorts of movies are the same in different countries, but when I first saw the Stardust trailer here in Australia, and before I realised it was Stardust, I wasn't particularly blown away. It looked like a cross between Witches of Eastwick and Time Bandits. If I didn't know the source book, I'm not sure the trailer would convince me (or a variation of me, with slightly less bizarre tastes) to go to the movie.

Once my brain kicked in and on subsequent viewings (I think I've seen it before three movies now), the trailer looks like an interesting teaser. As an introduction to the film, it doesn't work for me, though. Am I odd (about this..only!)?

Well, as I said to a friend last week - I'm almost ashamed to admit it but the Rush Hour 3 trailers look really funny to me.

Of course, I'll probably just watch Legend of Drunken Master again instead, since it's arguably the greatest martial arts flick ever made.

Of the opportunities I've had to attend movie previews, the first was a press screening of The Princess Bride back in the day. The most recent was the public preview of Stardust two weeks ago.

Comparing the two is apt in this way: You will appreciate the movie version of the Gaiman property (or not), in the same way you did the Goldman property, depending on you're having read the book (or not). I hope that makes sense.

I think fans of the book will be pleasantly surprised at not only how faithful the movie is overall, but also at what parts exactly were retained, and how cleverly screenwriter Jane Goldman re-engineered the first, what? three chapters?, to get the leads together asap. Perfectly satisfying, I think, for sticklers willing to concede some. I was also impressed by the sense of place and the way in which the geography of the story was conveyed.

Yes, the trailer — especially the tag line — is a stinker. I recommend y'all go. I'm planning to go again, with my daughter, as a paying customer this time.

I got to see Stardust at a sneak preview, and then reviewed it in my blog.

Yes, it deviated a bit from print forms of Neil Gaiman's story. But it was a delight in the little details that it used. I went with a little intimate group of 40 people from my Meetup group, and we all loved it.

It is not hyperbole to call it the next Princess Bride.

Hmm

Oh, this is gonna be a fun one. I've been wanting to argue with Scalzi.

Of course, I have sources you don't, John, so I'm arguably cheating at Scrabble.

I live in Hollywood. West Hollywood, to be exact. Just off Santa Monica boulevard and not so far from Fairfax. Busy intersection, for what it's worth. I'm two miles from the Grove, three miles from the Arclight, and three again from the Century City shopping center.

Why do I bring this up?

Because Hollywood is positively covered in Stardust right now.

I'm totally serious. The poster is absolutely everywhere. All over town. Every bus stop. Every billboard. I went to a Gregg Hurwitz reading/signing today at the Century City mall, and the place (just outside of Beverly Hills, east of Rodeo Drive) had Stardust around every damned corner. The Grove has a Stardust poster on every parking level, plus on at least three of seven placards placed strategically throughout the shopping area.

All eyes are, quite literally, on Stardust, but in a good way. Not in a Snakes on a Plane way.

My prediction is that it's going to be way bigger than Neil expects (not to mention you, John). Is it going to beat Rush Hour 3?

Of that I'm not certain, but for an entirely different reason: I think theaters will book more screenings of Rush Hour 3 than Stardust, but I think that most of the showings of the latter will sell completely out in almost every theater it plays. Leaving a lot of people to go watch Jackie Chan as their second choice.

It's kind of funny, to me, because when I first heard about it, I told my friend that I hope it got a bigger push behind it than Mirrormask got. I didn't want it, I told her, relegated to a handful of screens in more art-house cinemas.

I honestly think that Stardust is going to take this weekend. If it doesn't, I think the gap will be between $5 and $10 million. I think it's easily going to double your prediction, John.

We'll see...

Will Entrekin:

"I honestly think that Stardust is going to take this weekend."

Dude, you're totally high.

Having said that, I wouldn't mind at all if you were correct. Because in that formulation, not only does Stardust win, but Rush Hour 3 loses. And that would be a beautiful thing.

"I honestly think that Stardust is going to take this weekend."
I don't think that the marketing in L.A. is good indicator of how well a movie is going to perform. If that was the case, 'Mallrats' would have had one of the greatest openings ever, instead it left the theatres the next weekend. Of course, 'Mallrats', like all of Kevin Smith's flicks, has done very well on DVD. Stardust should have a better opening take (at least folks have heard of the actors in it), but then again I haven't heard anyone in town, outside of my geek clique, talking about 'Stardust'. I love Neil's work, but there are a lot of little towns like mine. I have a feeling that the 'Princess Bride' comparisons will be fairly accurate as far how 'Stardust' will perform, though I hope it does better.

I have a feeling (hope) that 'The Bourne Ultimatum' will keep the #1 spot this weekend. I want to see more smart action movies.

If I didn't have family obligations this weekend, I would be going to see Stardust this weekend.
What's not to love? Fantasy, adventure, romance. It looks great.

I have to quibble with your assessment of how much the sci-fi fandom brings to movies, John. Trying to use Serenity as the basis for those numbers seems particularly bad, because sci-fi fandom seems to be not nearly as monolithic in Firefly-worship as that implies. Obviously, trying to use Star Trek or Star Wars numbers would be going too far in the other direction.

Wouldn't something like Sky Captain be a better estimate?

No fair.
I do not even see Stardust having an Austrian release date yet!! I mean Transformers was just released in the English theaters this past weekend. Which I thought was an excellent movie. But I am easy to please when it comes to SciFi action movies.
I do hope to see Stardust released out here. As for Rush Hour....pfft who cares. Jet Li would kick Jackie Chans ass anyways.

"Fantasy, adventure, romance."

You forgot pirates in blimps. In fact, that's all you need to sell me on this movie. Robert De Niro? Eh. He plays a pirate in a blimp? I'm in.

Devin L. Ganger:

"Wouldn't something like Sky Captain be a better estimate?"

Well, Sky Captain brought in just $15 million its opening weekend and made $37 million total (to Serenity's $38.8 million), so I'm not entirely sure why you think that's a manifestly better metric.

Also the reason Serenity is a better metric is that (sorry, folks) the only thing it had going for it was skiffy geek lurve. Remember that Sky Captain also had Jude Law, Gwyneth Paltrow and Angelina Jolie; I figure they account for the extra $5 million on opening weekend.

Are they advertising this? Because this is the first I've heard about Stardust since I read somewhere that they were going to film it.

I wouldn't go about expecting big numbers here.

Greg: In Columbus, Ohio, posters and standees have been prominent in theaters since at least mid-June, and TV commercials have been running for at least three weeks. I know I've seen them during The Daily Show, which seems like good targeting. Not sure about network presence.

Not too OT: I saw earlier this week that they've changed the title of the The Dark is Rising movie. Can't be a good sign for fans of that series.

But does Robert DeNiro fight a giant spider? It's not a quality film unless someone fights a giant spider.

Jeff Hentosz: I don't doubt you. I have a toddler, so I haven't physically been to a movie theater in a while. I'm just going by my usual measurement of TV ads and the outside ads I see to and from my walk to work in Philly.

I see Rush Hour 3 all over the damn place, but not much in the way of Stardust.

I find it interesting how the focus is on how well the movie will do rather than how good it will be. Movies seem to be replacing sports teams for people to root for.

I'm hoping it's a good movie. If it's good, I hope it enjoys well-earned success. If it's not good, I hope it tanks.

I'd love to see Stardust on Friday, but am having a helluva time finding a theater that's showing it in the Twin Cities. What's up with that? So far I've got exactly one theater showing it on Friday (and one theater doing a midnight showing Thu night). That's it. Are the schedules just not set yet, or is it not out for general distribution?

I totally understand about finding a theater showing the damn thing. I'd wanted to see "Pan's Labyrinth", but it didn't show up until two weeks after the domestic release, it only hung around for two days, and I was busy both of those days.

I'd like to see Stardust on Friday, but Friday is Laundry Night out of absolute necessity, and I don't think my fellow moviegoers would appreciate it if I showed up smelling like decomposing bacon.

I also want to see Bourne Ultimatum, but I went in on opening weekend, and the line stretched around the door, and half the people bore banshee-voiced toddlers in their arms, so I thought "screw that!" and went home to read.

So I suppose the logical thing to do is to see Stardust on Saturday and Bourne next weekend.

Jeff Hentosz:

I saw earlier this week that they've changed the title of the The Dark is Rising movie. Can't be a good sign for fans of that series.

Gnnneearaarrrrgggh! Loved those books as a kid, and as far as I know they're still sitting on the shelf at the 'rents' house. *sigh* Why they gotta mess with it?

>>>and single, cat-loving women hoping for just one more Princess Bride experience before they die.

You kill me, Scalzi. (Yeah, some people wish that was literal!)

Out here in West (by God) Virginia, I can tell you that they have had posters at one of the local theater for Stardust for several months.

Additionally, I've had several people who are not Neil Gaiman or fantasy fans mention Stardust in passing to me, and all mentioned they were thinking about going.

So that's my highly unscientific survey of the (extremely) local general populace: "looks interesting; think I want to see it."

Gotta tell you, I'll be greatly surprised if Stardust does more than $8m on opening weekend under the competition from Bourne and Rush Hour. Stardust has gotten no real promotion, there's no "hook" being advertised to explain *why* people should go see it, so I think folks should take a more laid-back approach. If it's as good as it should be, word of mouth will spread, it will show it has "legs" and will make its money over time. Rush Hour 3 will have a big box office, but will not have any legs if it's as insipid as the early reviews suggest. Bourne is in its second week, so by the following weekend, Stardust may come into its own.

So, how does Stardust compare with American Gods? I'm afraid that's the only thing I read by Gaiman.

Jeff H, re The Dark is Rising:

To echo Brian, what?! *Groan* Bad enough that they shifted the setting to America, bad enough that the trailer makes it look like a cross between Spy Kids and The Last Mimzy.

What they did have going for them was Chris Eccleston as the Dark Rider (insert fangirl squee here) and Susan Cooper's title.

Bugger.

I'd like the Rush Hour movies a lot more if Chris Tucker wasn't in them.
Genevieve Williams

Isn't that sort of like saying I like Cheech better now that he's not working with Tommy Chong?

KIA:

"Bourne is in its second week, so by the following weekend, Stardust may come into its own."

Probably not. There are very few general release movies that improve in the second frame, and "legs" are kind of an antiquated notion in movies these days. Previously theaters got more money the longer a movie stayed in a theater; these days they've got a different set-up with the studios that gives them a better deal right out the gate, which means the theaters are more willing to throw over movies that aren't working. This is why it makes a difference to see a movie in the first weekend.

I dunno, the only promotion of it that I've seen was a single preview that looked *terrible* (though it makes more sense in the context of "Princess Bride homage").

Me and other geeks I know have been sort of movie-ed out lately--I know I've been to the movies more times this summer than I have in the previous year and a half. I don't think it's even on the radar of any non-Gaiman fan.

I'm fortunate in that my local Edwards megaplex dedicates up to three of its 18 theaters at a time to indie films. It's where I saw Pan's Labyrinth, The Illusionist, and The Prestige.

I will definitely be seeing Stardust this weekend, because I'm 30+ and going on a date with my 30+ boyfriend, a scifi/fantasy freak, and technically a single cat-loving woman.

I also feel the need to support intelligent movies, particularly if they are in a genre I love. I am proud to say that I contributed my $10 (and my boyfriend's $10) to Ultimatum's success this past weekend.

duckman1957: Off the top of my head, the only thing I can think of that Stardust has in common with American Gods is that they were written by the same guy. Voice, milieu, character development are all played differently.

Dark is Rising heads: The new title is (big-ass gold letters)THE SEEKER: (smaller blend-in-with-background letters) The Dark is Rising. Ch-ch-ch-check it out: Linky.

Jeff Hentosz:

Oh, dear. That film looks wildly suck-tastic.

Ok, I'm a "single, cat-loving" woman, and I didn't see what all the fuss over Princess Bride was about. Didn't especially care for the book, either; all the characters are self-serving neurotic twits. Now, I'd personally like to see Anansi Boys on film, myself...

I was lucky enough to go to a free advance screening last night or I probably would've been waiting for video as I can't afford the movies right now. I'd go again this weekend if I could afford it. It was a fantastic movie and I'm always willing to add to the numbers for movies I'm enthusiastic about. I do and I don't agree with your thoughts on who'd see it. I know enough people who have 1) never heard of Stardust in movie or book form or 2) hate fantasy and Rush Hour enough that they'd rather stay home this weekend. I think I'm the only person in my group of friends who has read the book or was looking forward to the movie. I wish it would do well, but I think it will do better in DVD sales.

Scalzi: Why, exactly? It looks like standard escapist fare; we are talking about a movie based on a series written for 8 year-olds, here. Why do you find it so onerous? Is it because it's such a diversion from the source material, or because you think it looks like a bad movie in its own right?

Honestly, I'd never heard of the series prior to this and unlike His Dark Materials, this was available when I was actually a kid.

Just to contribute to the general despondency surrounding the Dark Is Rising movie, here's a line from the trailer:

Will: But... I can't have powers! I can't even talk to a girl!

Agh! That sound you heard was my childhood having a hole ripped in it.

As far as Chris Tucker is concerned, I think his best movie has been Jackie Brown -- where he gets whacked by Sam Jackson in the first five minutes of the movie...

I got see an advanced screening of Stardust on July 31 here in Chicago, and I can tell you the film was fantastic. They did a great job of adapting the book to the screen (Gaiman helped do it), so while they had to change a few things from the book that just wouldn't have worked in a movie, you can rest assured that the spirit of the story has been completely maintained.

Saw Stardust last night...haven't enjoyed DeNiro as much since Brazil, and emotionally the film reminded me of the "Labyrinth" post-watching high.
I'm word-of-mouthing like crazy through out the convention and goth circuit, but I doubt that there is a high likelihood that Texas has a huge Stardust target audience. Regardless...I wanted to see it again as soon as it was over. Very very wonderfully good movie. They should be damn proud.

Saw it in San Diego two weeks ago, was brilliant. Helped that after the screening we got to ask questions to Neil. For those of us who read and loved the book, it's not the book, it's a movie it's not going to be the book, so get over that and enjoy it for what it is. Neil gave us the impression that there was a lot that got filmed but wasn't put into the movie due to time constraints. That said I am hoping to see all that in the DVD, but I am still definitely going to see Stardust this weekend, and drag as many people to it as I can.

In defense of Chris Tucker:

The Fifth Element

I will always have a soft spot for him after that movie.

And did anyone see Brett Ratner's interview with The Advocate? The one where he good-naturedly admits that his first blowjob was from a transsexual? Or does this little factoid belong in the Bob Allen thread?

Angelle:

The Fifth Element is emphatically not a defense of Chris Tucker, in my opinion. But you'll be happy to know my wife agrees with you.

Why would anyone want to give Brett Ratner a blowjob? That's just encouraging him!

In defense of Chris Tucker:

The Fifth Element

I will always have a soft spot for him after that movie.
Angelle

Yeah, it's probably a gender thing. Chris was a good fit for that role.

I saw a early screening and it was amazing!

I think Gaiman fans need to have a competition to see who can drag/convince the most people to see it. So far I have all of my co-workers and about 15 friends. (10 of whom will probably be drunk since it's Friday night, so they'll probably have to watch it again.)

WizarDru--because based on the trailer, the movie is systematically taking all the things that made the books NOT standard escapist fare for eight-year-olds, and stomping on them. With pointy boots.

For starters, it's set in present-day America. The book's plot hangs off of the old British Christmas season traditions, and their pre-Christian roots--modern America does not do wassailing choirboys, or the hunting of the wren. Modern America doesn't wait, fingers crossed and hearts clenched, for the cold to break and the ice to melt and the days to start getting appreciably longer. The trailer makes the Old Ones' powers into lame standard-superhero-suite things, and not even the bloody time travel seems like it comes from the sense of ancient things reaching into the world that permeates the entire book.

Unfortunately, I will likely not see Stardust either Friday or Saturday, as I'm hosting a party Saturday and expect to be up to my eyeballs in cleaning products and vacuum-cleaner bags and laundry until then. (Assuming I can drag myself away from Whatever.) But I think Sunday at Stardust sounds like a great plan...

And yes, The Fifth Element, as it's the only film I think I've seen in which Mr. Tucker played a role. The Rush Hour series? Feh.

Regarding Sky Captain, I was only picking names out of a hat. My point was that Serenity seemed like an odd movie to quantify "skiffy geek lurve" because it represented only a minority of the sf fandom base. In many segments of fandom I'm aware of, there is a notable split between the number of people who saw it and the number of people who didn't; it seemed to appeal to more of the core Wheedon fanciers than any other demographic, and while there's certainly an overlap between sf fans and Wheedon fanciers, it's nowhere near 1:1. Surely there's a better movie to represent the financial draw possible from sf fans?

I have to say, the only people I know who enjoy the Rush Hour Series are women. Whole Families of daughters and mothers, usually, with The Boys avoiding them if possible.

..but perhaps that is on DVD release vs. in theatre? who knows.

"Rush Hour 3 is pretty critic-proof, I'd say."

Seems one could separate moviegoers into two camps: Is critic proof an insult or high praise?

single, cat-loving women hoping for just one more Princess Bride experience before they die

there are, actually, some single, cat-loving women who can be grouped among the scifi/fantasy/skiffy geek lurve bunch who hope for no more Princess Bride experiences before death.

the only movies that sell out anymore are misguidedly small indie releases (limited to one screen per city), midnight and some 7pm showings on opening weekend of huge blockbusters, and those freak accidents that no one sees coming and happen to be in the right market area (I used to work in an urban market theater and we were nastily blindsided by crap like You Got Served and Roll Bounce).

Stardust is not likely to fall into that final category or really either of the previous two. I think the numbers can still be good, though - especially ones like per screen average.
I'm going on Friday, anyway.

Hmm. I distinctly remember being highly annoyed when Chris Tucker didn't die horribly by the end of Fifth Element.

I did like Rush Hour I, but it was because Jackie Chan was in it.

In my (admittedly limited) experience, any attempt to move something set outside the U.S., especially from England, is doomed to suckiness and/or failure when it's reset within the U.S. The U.S. Dr. Who movie comes to mind, as does Iron Chef.

I love Neil Gaiman and I'll be there on Friday night.

"All that said, if you are a fan of Neil Gaiman's and you want to see him continue to work in Hollywood and whatnot, then you really ought not be complacent, and you really ought to see Stardust on opening weekend, and preferably on Friday."

I won't argue that you are correct in your assessment. I will, however, say that if going to a movie theater is a requirement to make sure good movies keep getting made, then I unfortunately have to resign myself to watching crap for the rest of my live. I just cannot come up with a single argument these days to suffer through a flick at the theater.

Mind you, if you could deliver me said movie to my home on opening night so I can enjoy it there, I'd gladly pay a premium. I just wish box office success would stop being such a success indicator, especially when DVD release is the real money maker.

Hey, what about the demographic "Never EVER goes to opening weekends but wants to see their favorite author succeed/quality writing on screen"?

I did laugh at the single cat-loving woman comment, but it's only MAYBE partly true. Most of the single cat-loving women who also liked Princess Bride, who would go see Stardust on opening weekend, (possibly adding up to "a handful") would never consider themselves in that demographic. And most certainly would never admit to it in public.

Indeed, there are likely quite a few people who would go see this movie who don't fit into *any* demographic easily.

One thing that will certainly hinder opening weekend numbers in Montreal will be the fact that precisely one cinema where it is showing is easily accessible by Metro; all the others require crossing a large busy 8-lane highway in an armoured vehicle. It does not appear to be opening downtown, where most of the urban types would go to the cinema...