Whatever

I discovered years ago that most people like that want to share their view of religion with you and NEVER want to hear yours. They're right and you're wrong!

That there needs to be a T-shirt, John.

One way to get through the mental shields (which repel the fast logic, but occasionally admit the slow jab) is to actually quote the Bible at them. For example, Jesus's words about how calling your brother names means you're going to hell, or his rather insightful and pointed commentary about not everyone who cries "Lord, Lord" actually having the Golden Ticket to the Afterlife.

I'm not saying they'll actually think, but they do sputter entertainingly. Maybe if you're very very lucky, you'll get a head to explode, a la Scanners!

Amen, brother.

Mythago:

"That there needs to be on a T-shirt"

As it happens, it is.

My next bumper sticker:

Where Is Gandhi When We Need Him?

There is a video on youtube of the incident.

So very sad.

A manual trackback from Alas, a Blog, where I quote this post extensively:

How Not to Be a Dick, Religious Dicks Edition

"Taking a different tack, John Scalzi of the Whatever helpfully addresses the situation by weighing in with some practical advice for people who find themselves afflicted with a persistent case of religious dickishness. He writes..."

Well, could be worse. They could have left thousands of German peasants dead in a field for being the wrong kind of Christian. Oh, wait.

You know, if there's such a thing as Heaven (which I don't believe) and if they go (which I believe even less), God's going to stand there and ask "WTF were you THINKING?"

It's times like this that I stick Cheryl Wheeler's Your God (to which you can listen here) in heavy rotation on my playlist.

In high school 20+ years ago a classmate explained to me that as long as one was "saved," one was — is — pre-forgiven. This person, and all her tribe presumably, know in their hearts that they can do literally whatever their consciences allow them to do with no penalty. She said almost those exact words. They believe they have a spiritual XpressPass through the Gate, because they have accepted Jes-blah-blah-blah.

IANABS*, but it's my impression most of the justification for this attitude comes not from Jesus, but from Paul, the Tony Little/Ron Popeil, if you will, of early Christianity. Not to mention only the choicest morsels of Leviticus and the Old Testament prophets. Jesus said to pray in secret and to love and forgive your enemies. And who needs that?

* I am not a biblical scholar

I literally just read the article before I saw your post.

Does anyone remember the services after 9/11 when they had the multicultural prayers offered to the country and those who suffered?

There was respect. People listened and took from the services what they wanted, or kept their mouths shut if they didn't subscribe to a particular brand of religion. More and more stories come out that our tolerance level as a country has decreased. I'm curious as to why.

Two things scare me in this world - Religious fanatics (so appropriately called dicks) and clowns. Both of which were evident in that article. *shiver*

Our country was founded on principles including the freedom of religion. Perhaps it would behoove a few people to reread what we are is actually supposed to stand for.

John,
I think you used the wrong picture. SHouldn't you have used the one of you with horns and flames? :)

Says something about the readers of your blog that they're coming down on your side. Can we repost this somewhere where a really good flame war will get started?

Maybe I just need to stop by later in the day.

Amen, brother.

Jeebus.

I think linking verbs are out to get me. Suddenly, I'm Jar Jar.

We is are gonna bes okay?

Sorry for my poor writing. I shall decapitate my typist right no...

There shouldn't even be a religious prayer of any sort opening our Congress in the first freakin' place.

"Be a dick in Jesus' name" is just about the funniest thing I have read all day.

Mark, if you want a good flamewar, go to the youtube site linked to, and read the comments. It would be funny if it wasn't scary...

In that same sentiment, here's Frank Zappa with "Jesus Thinks You're a Jerk."

I love to shake up THE ONE TRUE GOD PEOPLE with this line. "Yes I know there is only one true God. His name is Zorlag and he lives in my basement." That stops all religious converstation dead in its tracks.

So, a good warm up for the Creation Museum, eh?

I really need to stop enjoying beverages while reading the Whatever - I don't know how much more of this my keyboard can take.

Dicks for Jesus and Christ-Dicks are my new favorite epithets.

Christdick. That was a good one. And you're spot on about points 4-6 (in particular).
Whenever I hear about other Christians being dicks it really pisses me off. My faith is based on grace and forgiveness, loving God and loving my neighbor, not being an asshole.

DKT,

Well, you obviously have a lot to learn. Get with the program, won't you? Dicks for Jesus needs YOU!

End Sarcasm

Friends of ours who used to be really close (over 2-3 times a week) got "born again" in an Evangelistic (ala Billy Graham) church. They started toting bibles over to our house, when they could make it because they went to church 3 times a week. I started getting quotes thrown at me left and right for a while, especially by the wife. Now, I grew up in a Catholic house and had the bible pounded into me for the first 12 years of my life. It pissed them off to no end to have me quote back at them from the opposite side of whatever they just said. They ran out and bought me a new bible (old one must have been defective because it didn't say what their's did, right?) and I still kept going. I could even flip to the page in their books (yeah - that didn't go over too well). I swear that they were about to tie me to a chair and shave my head to look for the mark of the beast. Needless to say, we don't see them too much any more.

I think the wife was jealous because her husband got to "witness" to a friend and get him baptized (grew up non-religious) and she just wanted to get in on some of that action. Pretty lame.

My husband and I (at his behest) have been going to bible study at our church (it's OK - only 1 night a week during March). When this was told to our "friends" the wife said they have bible study at their church too. I asked what they were reading and she said "Oh, the pastor reads a passage out of the bible and then tells us what it means." That's study? Sounds more like indoctrination for a cult to me. Yikes!

If all these "Dicks for Jesus" should figure out that unless your sacrificing cows and doves, as noted in the Old Testament, you're pretty much screwed out of whatever God has planned. Haven't gotten to any part of the bible where -GOD- says "Nevermind about all those rules I mentioned. Anything goes, ok." Others have said it but not the big guy.

"Christdick." I think I have a new favorite descriptor for a certain type of troublemaking nuisance. So much more concise than "fundamentalist evangelical whack-job."

As much as I don't believe in prayer (being an atheist and all), I think there are times when one should be respectful of other people's customs. If they insist on starting off Congress with praying (which is, maybe technically, against the establishment clause, but...), then they've got to take turns, like it or not.

Y'now, if we had a president who was a real leader, s/he should have said something about that public misbehavior yesterday. Naturally, W didn't say a thing about it.

This reminds me of the stink people made when Carl Ellison (sic?), a Muslim, wanted to say the oath with a Koran, not with a Bible. The usual suspects pitched a fit. Ellison did use a Koran...one from the collection of Thomas Jefferson!!

Ann Vallier, you're right. That doesn't sound like Bible Study, that sounds like a Sermon Hour.

My Grandfather taught me to read the whole chapter of the verse reading (for those Sundays) and to understand the verse in context. Pretty subversive in his own way he was.

Wow...I posted something about this on my site earlier today without knowing that John was going to post something here as well. As an FYI, I agree in principle with John's comments, but not necessarily in delivery. :)

What I find absolutely astounding is that many evangelical Christians will try to convince others that George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, etc. were devout Christians, when in reality, they were Deists. Our contry was certainly founded on a Judeo-Christian ethical system (and what's wrong with loving your neighbor and not killing people, after all?), but our constitution explicitly provides for a separation of church and state and allows for peaceful co-existence with other religions and creeds. Note that the keyword here is "peaceful."

The easiest solution to problems of this type is to not allow invocations of ANY kind before government events. That way, no one can claim that they were slighted, and no one can claim that the government is endorsing a religion in a subtle way.

Ann: What's funny is that many "born again" Christians, in my experience, think Catholics are agents of Satan, and I've always been told part of the problem historically with the papists was that priests would, well, "read(s) a passage out of the bible and then tells us what it means."

One of my all-time favorite cartoons is a Wiley Miller Non Sequitur panel showing a n00b at the Gate looking at a sign that says "Welcome to Heaven. Keep your religion to yourself."

Over at Yard Dog Press there has been established the first church of DBAA, aka Don't be an Asshole.

Jeff, I'm also amused by the assertation that Mormons are not Christians.

Of course, according to the Benedict-believing Catholics, only Catholics ARE Christians these days.

Dicks for Jesus. That could be interesting, on so many levels...

"You say your god is the one true god,
but my one god is the one true god,
I don't want to hear about your true god,
'cuz my true god's the one."

--Austin Lounge Lizards, One True God
from "The Drugs I Need" album.

Reminds me of that Penny Arcade strip:

Apsotle: "Jesus! Judas is teamkilling again!"
Jesus: "Judas, don't be a dick."

One of the reasons these guys piss me off so much is that they make me look bad. I hate having to say "Well yeah, I'm a Christian, but I'm not a bigot about it."

In Quakerism, we're encouraged to remember that everyone in the world has that of the divine in them-- that we're all 'part of the body of Christ.' Every time I meet one of these people, I come away thinking "well, it seems like even the body of Christ needs an asshole."

These guys don't quite take the cake, though. If you visit the Museum of the American Indian on the national mall, there's an exhibit that mentions a church in Washinton State that has big bullhorn speakers mounted on the outside of their building. The speakers are pointed in the direction of the nearby reservation. Every time the tribe's got any kind of religious ceremony going, the church blares gospel music to drown them out.

Because its aparantly a congregation full of tools.

Lauren, your comment brings to mind this comic.

I'm a Christian and even I'm offended by that story...

Yet again, Scalzi, I am impressed by how you, an 'unrepentant pagan sinner', are somehow able to grasp and express the true heart of many of God's followers. The phrase "Don't be a dick" may not go over well in the congregations but the sentiment 'sure as Hell' does.

I find it amusing how quickly the commentary went from "Jesus doesn't want you to be a dick" to "Anybody who has anything good to say about Jesus is a dick."

Real quality crowd you attract here, John.

Tim of Angle:

I'm not aware of the commentary generally trending in the direction you describe, although I recognize you may have rhetorical reasons for wishing to suggest it is.

If you want to direct the conversation away from a line of discussion you'd prefer not to see, the solution is to post something substantive in the direction you want to see the discussion go. I think that's a rather better tactic than insulting the other commenters, and, incidentally, me.

Well said, Scalzi.

BTW, Monty Python's Life of Brian ought to be required viewing in all religious education.

Plus ca change...

Tim of Angle,

Don't be obtuse. No one here is saying that Christians, en masse are Christdicks. We're saying that people who behave like dicks in the name of Christ are Christdicks.

Thankfully, Christdicks are are small minority. Unfortunately, they are also very loud.

At least in this case, nobody died. I'd rather put up with a few Christians knucklehead than worry about religious car bombers. It's rather refreshing to see religious people simply act like idiots.

bob smietanta,

Kind of speaks to how far our standards are falling, doesn't it?

Send me your picture
Send me your pillow
Send it through Krishna
On the Vanlose Stairway

Send me your bible
Send me your Gita
I want to reach you
On the Vanlose Stairway

And your stairway
Reaches up to the moon
And it comes right back
It comes right back to you

Send me some loving
Send me some kissing
You know what I'm missing
On the Vanlose Stairway

-Van Morrison
-Essential Music/PolyGram Music Publishing Ltd

Thank you, thank you and thank you!

Bob Smietanta,

Wonderful to know there have been no clinic bombings or assassinations of gynecologists or bombings of government buildings by people who call themselves "Christians."

No, wait...that's not true in our reality, however.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Matthew 23:15
(Direct quote of Jesus)

Every time I meet one of these people, I come away thinking "well, it seems like even the body of Christ needs an asshole."

Annalee, that just made my day.

Laurie,

Anybody—Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jews, Buddhist, whatever—who sets off a bomb and kills innocent people because "God told them to" must not have been listening. We've had Catholic and protestant terrorists, Jewish, Muslim and Hindu terrorists--they come in all denominations. Even some atheists have gotten in on the act.

As nutballs go, these Senate shouters were mostly harmless. Thank God for that.

Maybe they should be held up as examples; "Shout don't Shoot" -- "Be a dick, not a killer."

Real quality crowd you attract here, John.

I'm working on a way to turn every Muslim on the planet into dessert topping.

Progress is slow.

(Well, *I* think it's creative....)

Posted by Tim of Angle | July 12, 2007 12:57 PM

Quality. Pure, unadulterated quality, there.

Yes, yes. Let's not go down this road.

Adam Rakunas,

You have made my day. Hehe.

Sorry, John.

*skips away from road into cornfield*

Keri, I have seen Dicks for Jesus t-shirts in San Francisco they used to sell them at several vendors near the wharf.

BTW Anyone know if Dicks for Jesus would be protected speech under the latest high court ruling?

I'm kind of curious if this sort of behavior has ever happened before. I very rarely hear about people being disruptive in the house or senate balcony, but I assume it must happen at least occasionally. I kind of figured they deliberately kept it out of the news to discourage copycats.

Not all Christians are Christdicks, but sadly, it seems we are in the minority.

I was totally going to post the Penny Arcade comic but was beaten to the punch. (Does anyone else find it amusing that the PA guys have more reverence for Christ than the Christdicks do? I want the other shirt they had, "Jesus is F'n metal!"

Steve Taylor is a creative genius, and has been tweaking the cheeks of the uber-pious since his first EP, I Want To Be a Clone. He wrote a song called Smug that was just brilliant. The true genius comes in skewering the pompous from both the left and the right:

http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Steve-Taylor/Smug.html

[posted lyrics trimmed]

Guys, try not to post entire song's worth of lyrics without permission. That's a copyright violation unless the songwriter has given permission. Johne, I've trimmed back your entry to reflect this. Anyone interested in the lyrics can go to the URL Johne has provided.

Well, John, if you choose to feel insulted, there's not much I can do about that.

However, if we're talking about feeling insulted, let's start with the title of this post: "Jesus' Dickheads".

Now, if I were to put up a post titled "Scalzi's Social Disease", what would you think? Would you think "Oh, gee, must be a social disease out there falsely claiming some connection with Scalzi", or would you think "Oh, hey, somebody's claiming that Scalzi has a social disease"? I suggest the latter. Would you feel insulted by that? I strongly suspect that you would. Would a lot of fancy dancing about how social diseases have no connection with Scalzi and never could, while still ringing the changes on the phrase "Scalzi's Social Disease", make you feel any better? I strongly suspect that it wouldn't. And if you should suggest that the following fancy dancing detracts in any significant way from the negative impact of the original phrase, then I would see that as an insensitivity to the impact of language surprising in a professional writer.

I may perhaps have reacted too strongly, but this is an area in which I have strong feelings.

As for the quality of the commentary on this thread, I think it rather low. That's my honest opinion. If my honest opinions aren't welcome here, fine; I have other things to do with my time.

And if anybody wants to feel insulted by the fact that I'm not impressed with the quality of their commentary, they're free to do so; I certainly don't see any hesitation on anybody's part to express a low opinion of mine.

Tim of Angle:

"Well, John, if you choose to feel insulted, there's not much I can do about that."

Well, aside from not insulting me, you mean. Don't do the stupid thing here, Tim, and suggest you weren't meaning to be insulting. Mock innocence also insults me.

"Now, if I were to put up a post titled 'Scalzi's Social Disease', what would you think?"

I'd hope it was amusing enough to live up to the title.

Also, unless you're claiming to be Jesus Christ, which I sincerely hope you are not, you're not making a very good rhetorical argument, here.

Tim of Angle,

Speaking only for myself, I have no issue with you expressing a low opinion on the quality of the commentary. I do have an issue with your arguments, however.

First you make a gross generalization - Anybody who has anything good to say about Jesus is a dick. When called on your bad argument, you use a red herring to try and change the subject from "Christians Who Behaved Badly in Public," to "Scalzi Blatantly Objectifies Christians." I think you’ll find that if you can’t argue intelligently on the first topic, no one will take you very seriously on the second.

Regardless of what language Scalzi chooses to use on his personal blog to bring attention to the subject, the fact of the matter is that these individuals disrupted a public forum with their religious demonstration. They also did so in a manner that calls into question their belief in the 1st Amendment. I think that constitutes bad behavior, no matter what it's called. I also think it reflects badly on them, not on the hundreds of thousands of Christians in this country who know how to act.

And that’s my honest opinion.

Laurie, if you're talking about the Congressman from Minnesota, some people got all bent out of shape when they heard he'd take the Oath of Office on a Koran.

Then somebody actually checked with Congress. All new incoming Congresscritters take the Oath of Office in a body, with no religious books involved. After that, they go to their offices, where they generally take the Oath again as a photo op, using whatever props they feel like.

John, I'm amused at the thought that if Jesus came back anonymously and gave a prayer identical to the way he prayed during his life, these people would get seriously annoyed. They wouldn't see the problem, either.

Let he who has blogged about Hentai in the Dayton airport cast the first stone.

There is a conflict between sects of Christianity which feel it is their duty to "save" nonbelievers such as myself and nonbelievers who just want to be left alone. Atheists don't picket church services or hand out literature about how "You're all going to just decompose!" The irritating meddlesome quality of atheism versus religion is, in my experience, the religious pestering the atheistic. This is not even touching the mutually meddlesome nature of actual religious conflict. I think religious zealots should read the section of Gulliver's Travels about the Lilliputians and the "big-endian little-endian" war for some perspective on belief and the necessity of conflict.

Bookninja:

"Atheists don't picket church services or hand out literature about how 'You're all going to just decompose!'"

Well, except this one.

You know I just don’t buy it. I can’t believe Jesus ever said, “I am the only way to heaven…” Think about it, if someone said that to you what would you think? Nutjob, right? I think Jesus was a great leader of men; he worked tirelessly to feed the poor, tend to the sick, kick the money changers out of the temple, etc. Those aren’t the actions of wackjob with a messiah complex. When cult leaders make such claims these days they do it so they can sleep with all the female cult members and steal everything their brain washed disciples own. They don’t do it help anyone other than themselves.

That gets us to the real problem. Christianity doesn’t teach the teachings of Jesus. It teaches lessons cherry-picked by Emperor Constantine in 313 AD (or around then) and other leaders down through the centuries that placate the population. It makes us, the citizens, more pliable, easier to control. It is, as Karl Marx said, the opiate of the people (or masses.) Let me put it another way – it is a crutch for weak minded people.

I’ll go even further and say overall Christianity has a negative overall influence on society. The whole idea that I can do anything from necrophilia to genocide then fall on my knees five minuets before I die and accept Jesus into my heart and be forgiven is repulsive! No accountability? My dad never took me to church, never talked about religion, but he was a good man and a while after he died I was having dinner with a group of strict Christians. I kept my mouth shut for most of the meal and just listened. Finally, having heard them go on about Jesus for quite a while I asked, “So if someone is a good man, never sins, always treats people well but is not a Christian when he dies does he go to Heaven or to Hell?” They said, unanimously, he goes to Hell. Well I’d gone to church some as a kid, not with my parents but with my friend’s family, and never really caught that aspect of Christianity. Having heard my father was roasting in the eternal fires of hell and that people like Hitler (a devout Christian) were in Heaven I decided Christianity, or any religion really, was not for me. When I die I’ll go south, I’ll be in good company.

nisleib:

"Let me put it another way – it is a crutch for weak minded people."

Like this one?

I'd also be careful with the "Hitler was a devout Christian" thing.

As with many things, Christianity is to a very large extent what one makes of it. I'm not a believer myself, but I don't subscribe to the idea that those who are, are necessarily weak-minded.

One more thing. Look at the things Jesus was supposed to have done:

1) Kick the money changers out of the temple
2) Feed the poor
3) Heal the sick
4) Misc. other great things

Now look at the GOP, the “party of God,” and see how Jesus’ actions and their actions compare.

Opiate of the people. The GOP is using Christianity as expertly as any other group of power hungry criminals ever has.

nisleib

"Christianity doesn’t teach the teachings of Jesus. It teaches lessons cherry-picked by Emperor Constantine in 313 AD (or around then) and other leaders down through the centuries that placate the population"

I know this is the gospel according to the Da Vinci Code, but its not exactly factual. The whole Jesus was son of God, risen from dead who save sinners dates to the beginning of the faith. The first recordings of it are in the letters of Paul, beginning somewhere 50 AD. (Before that, the teachings/stories about Jesus were preserved in oral tradition and were being assembled and translated from Aramaic to Greek. Apologies for the history lesson.