Whatever

RuPaul is a presidential front runner! Wow, we've come further than I ever imagined.

And while I loved Serenity, it wasn't as good as the television series that spawned it.

"Serenity is the greatest science
fiction movie ever made"

Ummmm...no.

Contact, Blade Runner, Aliens, Metropolis, Close Encounters - maybe.

But Serenity? No.

The problem with the web is it is organized like a computer geeks email inbox - just a linear file of input as it happens. This means we are dependent on search engines to "organize" the web for us. This is just an efficiency problem for information seekers, and I don't really see a solution.

Ron Paul should be commended for his invention of the inside the eggshell scrambler. He can apply this ingenuity to finding terrorists. Serenity is good, but Ice Pirates is clearly the best science fiction movie ever. Perhaps if I repeated claim that Ice Pirates is the best science fiction movie ever, the iterative power of Google will make it so. Kind of like trying to bring about the evolved lamb. Even if it does incorporate Ron Paul, Megatron, Trilobyte home made hentai for YouTube.

It is a major problem. Every one knows the greatest science fiction movie ever made was 'Attack of the Killer Tomatoes.'

Jeebus.

Serenity was a fun movie. That's about it, in my opinion. Anyone who says it's the greatest SF movie ever has clearly not seen enough SF in film and/or is a very, very devout member of the Church of Whedon.

Bah. The Anonymous comment was me.

Ugh, sorry for copy editing in the above post.

Anonymity and fervency can easily skew poorly designed polls. The internet makes poorly designed polls dirt cheap, while not noticably decreasing the cost of well-designed polls. The telephone did the same, but less so. The result is that there are lot more polls that are poorly designed and have worthless results.

There, that got the obvious stuff out of the way.

One thing the internet does make much cheaper, is prediction markets. These tend to be much more accurate than polling at predicting future events. Expect to see them a lot in the future. On InTrade right now, 2008.GOP.NOM.PAUL futures are at 2.5, making him a distant fifth for the republican nomination, and a 40-1 shot. Eventually, when people say "on the internet, he's the frontrunner", it'll be prediction futures that they are talking about.

Happened to catch Serenity again last night. Talking about it as the best science fiction movie is ridiculous, but there's a good argument to be made that it's the most entertaining.

Probably not the best ever made, but I would rate it fairly high: definitely below Blade Runner, Forbidden Planet (1956) and perhaps The Day that the Earth Stood Still, but certainly over the overrated Close Encounters of the Third Kind or Star Wars.

Serenity was excellent, but it was Firefly that was truly "shiny." Firefly, Babylon 5 & Farscape are the best science fiction shows ever made (and yes, that includes Star Trek.)

Uh oh, I think that last comment might have been too much… my computer is smoking… denial of service attack… Stop! No! Arrrrrghhhhhhhh

STAR TREK IS BEST – RESISTANCE IS FUTILE – YOU ARE IN VIOLATION OF INTERNET PROTOCOL ST75w34 – PREPARE TO FACE DEATH BY TRIBBLE INJECTION

I've no idea who Ron Paul is, but if RuPaul were a front runner, I'd probably pay more attention to American politics. As it is, I pay minimal attention to Canada's political gong show, only enough to be able to vote somewhat educated.

As for Serenity being the best SF movie? Nah. Very entertaining, and the only one I cried at, but not the best. I miss my Whedon-Crack.

I am an acolyte to the Church of Whedon, thanks to the wonder of Buffy (actually, it's Giles that got me hooked - yummy English librarian watchers with wire-rimmed glasses and excellent singing voices get me every time). I lovelovelove Serenity (and Firefly, of course).

But.

Serenity is not the best SF of all time.

That honor goes to Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. Possibly Star Trek: Nemesis.

What? Stop looking at me like that.

Honestly, I don't think that even the most fervent Browncoats really think that Serenity was that great (good, yes; maybe even in the top ten, but not the best); they're just desperately clinging to the slimmest glimmer of a possibility of a chance that there exists the tiniest hope they might someday get more Firefly. (Honestly, as a group they constantly remind me that "fan" is a derivative of "fanatic," as in, "will burn your house down, steal all your stuff, and kill all the non-believers if it will in any way advance The Cause." In a nice way, of course.)

As far as Ron Paul, didn't he get the Colbert Bump a few weeks ago? He might actually get two, maybe three percent of the vote, now...

Ron Paul is not a total idiot or liar, so he has no chance of being the front runner for the Grand Old Party.

I loved Serenity. Best SF film of all time, I don't think that's even in the doctrine of the Church of Whedon. But is was so, so much better than the last three Star Wars movies.

I love that your point was that the internet is an insular community that tends to act as a massive echo chamber, and instantly the conversation devolves into an argument on the relative merits of Serenity vs. Science Fiction Movies I Like. Also Serenity is a space opera, not sci-fi.

Ron Paul's probably the only honest man in Washington. He's now the #3 ranking republican candidate in cash-on-hand, and he's gaining a lot of popularity in meatspace.

Love him or hate him, his popularity is on the rise. If you're an American voter, check him out. It's somewhat irresponsible to summarily dismiss the guy this early as a "long shot" as he's showing readiness to play with the Big Boys. ;-)

Bah!

Flesh Gordon Meets the Cosmic Cheerleaders is the finest SciFi movie evah!

Serenity is not the best sci fi movie ever. However, it's fans are obviously the most vocal. Maybe that's what's going on with Ron Paul.

For the record, I've never heard of him, but I'm not following the '08 election yet. A year and a half of campaigns will just make me vomit, and I don't like to vomit.

I actually wrote up some thoughts along these lines using Serenity and Scalzi's run for SFWA president as examples: Blogsight and how fans overestimate their importance. It's an extension of "but everybody I know believes..." and it's not limited to the web. I saw an article by Anne Lamott which said something along the lines of, "As an aside, does anyone still support Bush? No one I know does." This was back in 2003 or 2004, and I looked around my red state neighbors with their "W" stickers and thought, yes, Anne, people still do.

Also Serenity is a space opera, not sci-fi. If you're going to make that distinction, the number of sci-fi movies actually shown in mainstream theatres probably isn't enough to fill a top-ten list.

Stephen Granade:

One point of information re: my SFWA run: By the time I entered the race, a significant number (and percentage)of the ballots had already been sent in, which skews the final results rather substantially. They're not an indicator of how I would have done had I run from the beginning. This is not to say I would have won, mind you. But I suspect that if I did lose, it would not have been by such a margin.

Wait, I'm on teh interweebies and I'm not a dog? Am I the only one?

Stephen, I live in San Diego, and I still see the W stickers everywhere. Sadly, there are some people who will tow the party line no matter what their leaders do.

Goddammit! I just realized I used "it's" instead of "its" in my other post. I am such a grammar Nazi, I can't believe I did that!

"Ron Paul is not a total idiot or liar, so he has no chance of being the front runner for the Grand Old Party. "

you forgot to add.. or the Democratic party for that matter..
please.. remember the fairness doctrine.

I think this is a pretty broad interpretation of the web. Which is really the problem, isn't it? People consistently interpret what they read as fact even when in the context of what they are reading it not meant to be so. If that makes sense. And although I love Serenity and think it rocks, that doesn't automatically make it the best sci-fi movie ever. I think broad generalizations in any context such as "The X-Files is the greatest TV show ever made" or "mushrooms are the worst food on the planet" are ignorant and easy to disprove. Hence why few Serenity fans claim that it's the best sci-fi movie ever. It's just naive.

John, sure. Though I didn't mention it directly in the write-up, I did link to your expectations-managing entry where you talked about that factor. I did see and hear a number of people who viewed you as nearly a shoo-in, and speculated that that view was based on the blog coverage you generated and received versus what Michael Capobianco received.

Keri, I live in San Diego too. I often call it the big red toe of the big blue state.

Carol Elaine,

I happen to think it was The Voyage Home, but then, I'm a sucker for whales.

And yes, Ron Paul did get the "Colbert Bump," but I don't know how it affected his numbers.

I second the internet = echo chamber.

Yeah, Close Encounters and Contact/=Serenity

Sorry, those movies were not good. Thought provoking, perhaps, but not good, good here defined as entertaining, compelling AND thought provoking.

Serenity isn't the best, but it's pretty well done. The fact that someone made this comment means they're probably the one out of touch.

I don't know who Ron Paul is, either (I've been thinking Ron Jeremy all this time, LOL). But if RuPaul ran, I'd cast my vote on principle.

I think broad generalizations in any context such as "The X-Files is the greatest TV show ever made" or "mushrooms are the worst food on the planet" are ignorant and easy to disprove.

Umm, not really. You can't disprove an opinion, since it's not a statement of fact; there is no "true" or "false" here. I can say "I like blue; it's the best color," and what I've really just said was "I like blue; in my opinion it's the best color."

The problem is, so few of us actually consciously make that distinction when we're speaking or writing. When we state an opinion, we take it as fact (since in our personal, subjective universe it is), and if the person we're talking to either agrees or has no opinion on the issue, and they trust our opinion at all, then they tend to accept it as fact or confirming evidence without any other research or consideration. They then spread that belief to other people, and so on. It's human nature, I'm afraid.

I agree Janiece, the it's Star Trek IV FTW! It may not have been the most dramatic, but it was a blast to watch.

There are (at least) two challenges to overcome with the web - momentum and volume. Once the momentum of a particular idea dies, that's usually it, it rarely resurfaces. And ideas with no momentum (or less than their counter-ideas) die.

The volume problem might be worse, since momentum is often limited to Blogistan. You're J. Random Public wondering who this Ron Paul guy is. Google turns up his campaign site, Wikipedia, etc. Looking at those sources, he actually seems rational.

On the other hand, I'd consider somebody who defends cross-burning as free speech and is a consistent pipeline for injecting right-wing conspiracy theories (UN/NWO tripe, anti-Fed fear mongering, tax protesting, 95% of African-Americans in DC being criminals, etc.) maybe not a great candidate. But the truth (you can start here if you're interested) is just too far down to see the light of day.

I recall a discussion I had around 12-13 years ago with my boss at the time. He was sure that the internet would guarantee that ordinary people would learn what was really happening, that everybody would effectively start reading Z Magazine and The Nation.

I argued then and still believe that he was overselling the internet: the information may be out there, but if you're not already tuned into the (liberal|conservative) world, if you're starting points are Google, Yahoo, and MSNBC.com, you're not going to find much outside of the tepid mainstream.

I'd say if you want to avoid becoming too insular within whatever community you're in, it's good to participate in other ones that are focused around completely different things and have little to no contact with each other, with at least an equal amount of involvement as the one you're getting too comfy in.

I read it as "RuPaul is a presidential front runner" which, if that were the case, would make the upcoming election much more interesting, if only on the Web.

I liked Serenity, and in fact I suspect Joss Whedon of stealing George Lucas's mojo, but no. Not even close.

As a proud browncoat I can say that we're all not as fanatical and obsessive as non-browncoats think we are. It's the converse of Blogsight: outsiders for any group think that insiders of that group are far more weird than they actually are.

I think Serenity was pretty gorram shiny, but certainly the Browncoats are no stranger than the "standard" SF fan, Goths, or even the Cheeseheads?

Oh and! Voyage Home pwns Final Frontier any day. :p

Then again, Stargate pwns Star Trek.

And Farscape and Stargate should not have been allowed to mix.

Actually, Janiece, Jim Franks and MWT, I was joking about those two. I am not a fan of The Final Frontier. I've watched it many times, hoping it would morph into a good Star Trek movie (or hell, a good movie period) but no go. It turned into exactly what I thought it would turn into when I heard that Shatner was at the helm. Though it does have one of my favorite movie quotes: "What does God need with a starship?"

As for Nemesis, I've only seen it once. For a long time Trekkie like me, that's gotta tell ya something. Basically, it's "Dude, don't you mess with my Data!"

My favorite Star Trek movies are Wrath of Khan (my first date ever took me to this movie - I'd been a hardcore Trekkie for several years by then), Voyage Home, (whales and humor and Spock trying to hide his ears, oh my!) and First Contact (Data and Picard are sexy beasts here, plus the ever fantastic James Cromwell and Alfre Woodard). I enjoy most of the others, but these three? LOVE them.

BTW, MWT, I've never seen Stargate, but I say to you: Heresy!

"The problem with using the Web as a model for what's really going on is that on the Web, Ron Paul is a presidential front runner and Serenity is the greatest science fiction movie ever made."

Well, this being the Web, I don't see anything remotely controversial about either of those statements.

Carol Elaine,

I wasn't going to say anything about The Final Frontier and Nemesis, 'cause, you know - not nice to bash your blog-buddies personal opinions. Hehe.

I agree with you about The Wrath of Khan and First Contact, as well as my first favorite, The Voyage Home. Luv, luv, luv.

And and! *keeps thinking of more random things to add*

Anyone here remember Space: Above and Beyond? Now there were some ardent fans hoping for the return of something both awesome and shortlived....

Carol Elaine: You should try Stargate. Especially seasons 1-8 of SG1, 1-2 of Atlantis. After Star Trek started going stale somewhere mid-late-DS9 (possibly with the departure of Robert Hewitte Wolf), it was very refreshing to find some sci-fi TV in the prime of greatness. I was converted pretty quickly. :)

(I was a diehard Trekkie back in The Day, at least if you count my sizeable TOS paperbacks collection and getting into frequent arguments in alt.tv.star-trek.ds9 and alt.tv.star-trek.voyager.)

John, I'd go a step farther and say that their is no one "web." I mean, just to grab at random, there's a whole host of "Daily Kos" web users (and I'm sure an equally large right-wing group, just don't know what site they congregate around) that have never heard of Serenity.

On the web, it's very easy to find so much stuff that tickles your individual squee. Unless you work at it, you'll never see what's going on outside that little community.

Stephen Granade's point is valid in real-space as well. The people you associate with become "everybody," and unless you have an unusually broad group of associates, you can still get an echo chamber effect. I see this happening in small towns (came from one) all the time.

Wait, have we forgotten that Raptors of Rome is the best science fiction/speculative fiction/alternate history movie ever, even if it hasn't quite been made just yet? (Er, YouTube, anyone?)

Serenity was alright, but didn't hold a candle to Firefly. Firefly was outstanding, while Serenity was rushed and had some plot resolutions that were really off and some that were lacking. But heck, at least it wasn't as sadly embarrassing a wrap-up as The Peacekeeper Wars. (Sniff....)

P.S. John's eavesdroppee had clearly not noticed the part of the Web saying -- based on professionals' opinions (no matter how odd?) -- that these are the mightiest SF movies.

I don't need Rotten Tomatoes to tell me the most significant science fiction films.

Ah, but yr Rough Guide's listing of mightiest SF films is in that nifty/handy analog "book" format, whereas the Rotten Tomatoes list does reside on the Interweb. So it more directly contradicts your eavesdroppee's assertion, surely? (Even if the RT list does -- just barely -- include Serenity in the top 50.)

All of these science fiction movies you mention involve space and/or aliens, but the best science fiction movie involves neither. 12 Monkeys, guys. Come on. Serenity is a distant second.

I sort of agree with the guys saying "too much politics too early", but I took it upon myself to google Ron paul up. He's pretty fascinating, even for a republican. But as other people said, he's way too honest to be voted in. His voting record is awesome though.

This two sentence post made Fark. Good job, Scalzi!

Not sure what Ron Paul is about, but Serenity isn't a bad pick. I vote Forbidden Planet, though.

Farked for this?

If this keeps up I'm going to need my own tag.

Ice Pirates! Christian, you and me = babies!

Didn't we learn this with Snakes on a Plane already?

Carol Elaine,

Star Trek V will always have a special place in my heart. I met my first girlfriend while standing in line for it on opening night. We flirted through the whole film. Plus, I always remember it as a feature-length adaptation of one my favorite Calvin & Hobbes cartoons: But Calvin is no kind and loving god! He's one of the old gods! He demands sacrifice!

[deleted for anonymous stupidity --JS]

"The problem with the web is that it has Cory Doctorow on it."

Discuss.

I'm getting a kick out of these replies

You don't get to pick the topics, John Insig. Also, Cory isn't on the Web, he floats above it in a ballon, wearing a cape. This is well-established.

Cory isn't on the Web, he floats above it in a ballon, wearing a cape. This is well-established.

In this xkcd strip, for instance.

It is blasphemous that you would allow people to leave derisive comments in reference to Chairman Paul. History is written by the victors! Sempre Paul!

Farked again? Forget getting a tag, Scalzi: clearly you're Fark's Web 2.0 version of Jon Katz.

But Peacekeeper Wars didn't suck! It was awesome and messy and flawed in all the best ways Farscape always was. Lots of interpersonal drama, weird plot twists, plenty of thematic continuity, and no discernable plot logic. Just like old times. *grin*

It's not my favorite 3.5 hours of Farscape (that would probably be "Relativity" through to "Fractures", minus "Meltdown"), but it's pretty entertaining. And very very shiny.

Personally I dug Repo Man and I'm voting for Al Gore regardless of whether he actually runs or not.

Serenity, and more importantly, Firefly, were beautifully executed entertainment. But they don't have much in the way of underlying meaning. For example - Serenity ranks above the second and third Matrix movies, but not above the first one.

Not sure I could quite make a call on greatest science fiction movie of all time, but frankly, it can't have been made before the mid eighties at the earliest. Choosing anything before that is like saying that the greatest work of literature in the English language was written before the alphabet was invented; the technology just wasn't sufficient to make the point hit home without being interrupted by random giggling. (I'm looking at you, Trekkies, Lucasites.)

Might make an exception for Geiger's Alien, but the third one was more interesting in the long run anyways.

My best guess - the Dune miniseries that came out in 2000. Follows the book almost perfectly, has a main character who isn't a one-dimensional hero archetype, can be treated as relevant political commentary to this day, and best of all, it doesn't have any people drooling on each other, like the godawful version that came out in the seventies.

I think Rupaul would be a great choice for president. Then we would have a queen for president and we would really leave the rest of the world scratching their collectives heads.

Serenity?

Ron Paul clearly isn't the front runner but he is indeed an excellent candidate in my anonymous opinion, I hope to have the opportunity to vote for him =)

Aside from that I would have to say Serenity definitely ranks up there with the better parts of the SCIFI genre. The theme song owns too but then again I'm also a fan of the first Enterprise theme song ^^

That is all, carry on citizens =P

After I saw Serenity, I wanted not only my money back, but my time as well.

Al Gore, seriously?

Ron Paul is the only chance we have to get back on the path to actually having control of our country, and stop heading down the path of fascist communism.

Ron Paul, is not RuPaul.... wow.

I weep for all who glorify Star Trek: First Contact, with its bad sets, Deanna Troi comic relief, sub-Aliens "suspense" and stupid Steppenwolf song at the end, as somehow worthy to step foot in the temple that is The Wrath of Khan.

To the argumentobots of science fiction: the point is over there, right next to the vagina.

Shara Saunsaucie wrote:

Anyone who says it's the greatest SF movie ever has clearly not seen enough SF in film and/or is a very, very devout member of the Church of Whedon.

No less a luminary than Orson Scott Card (who doesn't suffer fools gladly) wrote:

I'm not going to say it's the best science fiction movie, ever.

Oh, wait. Yes I am.

Personally, as much as I liked Serenity, my favorite space opera films are Star Wars EP IV / V.

My favorite sci-fi films are Dark City and the Director's Cut of Blade Runner.

Outstandingly punchy discussion topic. Libertarian candidate vs. libertarian space opera. Hidden question: can any libertarian agendas gain any traction in an era of rampant socialism and nationalism? Answer: nope.

Now I will begin speaking in complete sentences rather than fragments. I find the degree of resistance being exhibited by mainstream society toward libertarian thought not merely remarkable but downright disturbing. It's as if the advertising gurus, who take their money from corporations, who spend on marketing as a tax dodge, don't want a smaller government or more personal freedom. Why, it's almost like they make conscious decisions to cut funding, coverage, and advertising for anyone or anything with such a platform. Imagine!

Conclusion: If Firefly fans want their show or Ron Paul wants to gain the Presidency and clean house, they'd both better figure out a way to get funding, broadcasting, and power from the web. Ron Paul has found his way, and if he can make it clear to his constituents that they need to vote in the primaries, not just the main election, he might deliver one heck of a surprise to the Republicrats. Now it's up to the Browncoats to do the same.

Methinks that a lot in this thread have missed the point.

But then again... this is the Internet